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This video was brought to you by Steinberg a better world planner Mr Green Camp power and Marcus Beale Yo what's up we are now sitting in the Flood and in this video I'm going to Talk about soccer K and Pa Um when I was in Thailand PA contacted Me and they wanted to consult me about The charging station for future planning You know layout and tips and tricks and Because they realized that I'm one of The super users out there and they just Want to get some input on how they might Want to design future touring station And then as a coincidence Circle K also Contacted me recently and yesterday I Was at the meeting with Circle K and They asked the same things about Charging stations uh you know what is Good what is bad what is your experience And then how should they design future Charging stations you know so I think It's actually great that Circle K and Pa Came to me and asked me because Sometimes when I go to some charting Stations or when I use some charging Stations I wonder if those people have Ever used EVS before So um yeah and also I remember we're Going to talk about the Circle K one now I guess PA it's not too interesting for You guys PA is the provincial Electricity Authority in Thailand yeah Also yeah but uh what you guys know is
The server case so I remember they Opened up this page here just a Google Quick Google and they started looking at Some Chargers and like a charting layout For example was one topic okay by the Way maybe I I can't talk about Everything some stuff is secret Especially the future one but in on General basis I can talk about yeah we Talk about charting layout at least so That's not secret like I said yeah you Know this kind of layout this is the Bombler by the way uh this is good it Takes up more space of course it needs More space but it's better for uh many Different EVS because you see here some Some cars they have the charge port on The right side with the wrong side Should have been left side with the Right side and then when the money cars Charge like here you know this I wonder If this is uh Um In Oslo then it could be Troublesome When we have cars with different charge Port locations parking side by side yeah This is currently they are kind of like A partner with uh Circle K This is all number oh this is the old One yeah okay that's I think that's why It's Circle K yeah But you see for example this layout here Yeah Um I mean it's it's I understand it's
For us like a cost perspective it's easy To set them up side by side but uh maybe We should have a little bit more space In between them at least so and this Case told that um Regular parking spots They are 2.5 meters wide whereas they Try to make them 2.75 meters wide and I Actually recommend three meters wide so Um so you get more space because of a Different chargepoint placements so we Talk about that one we also talk about Cable length you see here we have the Tritium chargers there's actually an and It was a Nick 400 I think it was called Like like uh like some kind of rule some Kind of standard that was applied in Norway a long time ago where the cable Should not be long enough to hit the Ground so that's why some Chargers like The treatment charger they have Ridiculous it's short cables and that Actually becomes a problem when you have Fat each room where the charge port in a Clumsy location in my opinion a charge Port should be towards the one of the Corners of the car and not okay that's Not the story I mean and I in my opinion It should not be in the front because we Have something called salt schmutzfest In Norway but okay anyway so yeah we we Talk about the cable length by the way I Shouldn't explain to you guys so this Video is more like an educational video And I was also touching to what we talk
About with Circle K and pea but when it Comes to cable length I also gave both PA and Circle K some input that yeah I mean why why why by the way why Shouldn't it touch the ground in the First place well well I can tell you That there was one actually one case Where I realized that that is bad I've Seen chart plug fall to the ground no Problem right but over time it becomes a Problem because It was one time I met a guy with a Status EV at uh ioni doll but he was not At the Auntie charger he was at the Circle K Chargers and he struggled to Make it work with charging basically Handshake fail and then they found out That the plug the could not go fully he Cannot fully insert the plug when I look At the charter plug I saw that it was Quite damaged a CCS plug it has fallen To the ground so many times that pieces Of the the plastic pieces of the plug Has fallen off and then got stuck in Between the car's port and the plug so I Had to find some kind of stick and then Poke it out and then I managed to plug It in and then he I think he started Charging but you see that's the problem Because Charge plugs they should not hit the Ground over time they will damage and Then also the problem with treatment Charges that there is a silly design
It's kind of hard to show you here but When you want to see it you see it's Like a little pocket where you can put The plug in there and that that The problem is that there's a little Rubber seal around there that over time Gets worn out and then eventually it Falls out and then suddenly you have no Rubber seal holding the plug into that Tiny pocket and then it drops on the Ground a Tesla also by the way Tesla Supercharger has a different different Holder that was all also Troublesome and They also tend to fell on the ground or Fall on the ground rather Um but yeah so that led into problems That they've kept falling but then of Course these cables they are kind of Short but they still kept dropping on The ground Uh but when it comes to cable length by The way back to that topic yeah uh Eventually they kind of removed that Requirement so that cables can be longer So you will see that for example Typically here this is an ABB charger Then the cable is long enough so you can Kind of fit it in cars with different Charge port locations so I also turned Into that one yes and then we also talk About by the way some some Chargers like More modern charges like this this is The new tritium charger it has a little Like a dispenser on top there and that
Becomes better also here we have the Hypercharger this is the old version That well actually there's another Variant with a hypercharger which also Has this kind of cable holder yeah the Iont charge by the way They are called um was again IDT no I don't remember there was a Three-letter acronym but these charges Are three team charges but they are Ionic the only design so you will only Find these kind of nice and fancy tall Ones for ionity And again they also have this spring oh No it's it's like a another spring load It's um the spring-loaded one is for a Cam power but this is like a wire thing There that helps you extend the cable And then it also prevents it from Dropping the ground and my impression is That yes the ionic cables they they Really drop to the ground if at all Really and I can show you uh yeah here We have more of these hyper Chargers but Yeah this one also without the the cable Also in general yeah I I said yeah what Is this all the new new variant of a b Yeah but you see in general these Designs here they are actually nice and I remember when I went to Korea that was Many many years ago when uh Nero came out the Koreans they already Had this kind of cable hole thing it was A Korean charging station uh Korean made
In Korea and I started I now realize That it's actually very nice that it Doesn't drop to the ground because Eventually it will cause problems and Also it will add extra cost so we turned Into that one and also when it comes to Cables by the way Um uh let me see if I have a good one Yeah for example this one here you know These cables here they are not water Cool And same here they are not vertical we Just call it possibly cool they are just Thick enough to be able to sustain an Amount of amps and then it depends which Station is but in general they they are Rated for 375 or 400 amp continuous load But then eventually in the case where it Gets too hot then it might throttle but At least in general especially in Norway Europe it doesn't get that hot maybe in Thailand it becomes a problem but and Also cam power I talked to Campa about Cables they have the the 300 amp or 375 Amp uh passive you know passive cables But they can actually kind of over Charge them they can They many sites allows 500 amp but not Continuous but it's good enough so I When I was at Camp power Factory we Looked into charge right no Camp power They have really Kick-Ass software they Log everything so I said okay can you Guys look up on an eqc no no EQ eqs
Because eqs is 400 volt base and it can Charge quite fast for example this one Here the the fat e-tron can only sustain Around 370 amps so it's not too Interesting or it doesn't hit the limit But there's e2s we found it in e2s and Then charge I software at the cam power They could see that they they could see A voltage in the battery you know that It was an eqs the location they could Also see the temperature on the cable And the the car was in fact uh taking 500 amp in the beginning but then for Not too long I think it was just five Minutes maybe not even five minutes and Then the car started throttling so under The temperature on the cable dropped so You see possibly cool cables especially In Europe Norway they it's good enough For today's cars like even then you Think what about the taikan or you know Eastern GT they can take 250 kilowatt Yes but that's 800 volts so yes it is it Is actually an advantage for 800 volt Architecture because the voltage on Those cars are typically 750 to 800 volt So when they take 250 kilowatt the it's Only 375 amp so yeah it is an advantage Of course but as we saw in the case of The eqs the eqs didn't even hit the Limit and the cable could deliver the Power just fine in Thailand that might Be a different story because I measure It I remember it was a it was a Tesla
It's parked in the Sun and I measure on The black parts or I think there was a Chrome delete part or something It was 70 degrees Celsius because as Strong as the sun is quite strong over There and I can imagine that the cable If it's just exposed to the sun in Thailand it could probably be 70 degrees Celsius and then you plug in and then it Increases and I think our around I think I've heard from Camp power that once the Cable and the sensor hits 85 degrees Celsius it then needs to throttle so I Also talked to PA about the roof by the Way that in Thailand You see here there is no roof there Right there's a roof over the Chargers Here but that's more to protect the Chargers but I mean they are they can Still just be exposed to the elements Like this just fine they are designed For I don't know what kind of ipe rating IP 70 or 67 or something Um but um we also I also talked to Ionity about this uh also like I mean Should they have roof uh they asked me And they said well roof is nice like if You live in batigan you know But the problem with in the western World is that the cost is I mean labor Is high and material cost is General Also higher so if you want to build a Nice roof like you have on the gas pump And the gas pump is different in a way
Because over there it's required to have Some kind of safety in case of well it's Kind of funny right in case of uh fire Because the the fire hazard is higher at Gas pumps than at charge stations yeah Believe it or not even though the media Tries to make it look like EVS are are More dangerous or for fire right but it Isn't really so but yeah so gas pumps They need to have this I think it's I Don't know required by law sometimes Safety stuff that in case one of these Uh uh faucet cars catches fire then uh There must be a self-distinguisher System that's why you have the nice Fancy roof but it cost but that's just The name of the game whereas EVS it's Not really required to have it and at Least when I talk to ionity about this They say that okay if they can build a Roof but who's going to pay for it well The users of course they are taking the Bill so I said I think it's not needed In Europe in Thailand on the other hand Thailand is different story because the Sun is so strong over there and then if You can get at least the cable on the Roof and I guess maybe the whole charger On the roof it will stay cooler and then Maybe have higher efficiency and and Then labor cost in Thailand and material Cost is way lower so actually for PA I Recommend them to go for a roof but in Europe I said it's not needed as long as
You can make the the user experience uh Better and you don't have to dig around Too long before you can start charging With you know with apps and stuff like That then a roof is not really that Needed and normally when I charge at Ionity or or some of the other charges You know I just beep RFID done and then I go into the gas station yeah Um and also we touch into other problems Let's say this one is a prime example by The way there's lots of nice pictures I Can illustrate things here Um you see that we have uh 50 kilowatt Charges here and 150 kilowatt over there And the the this is like the traditional Design that you have all the components And everything power units everything uh In this unit and in this unit and you Guys have experienced it before right You come here with a fat e-tron and you Want to use the high power chargers what Do you find there a freaking e-golf and An I3 charging on the high power Chargers and then the 50 kilowatt Charges are available Yeah so actually a more modern design is Like a power sharing this one is way Better the albatronic hyperchargers Because usually you can have this is the Fat version it comes with in different Width and then this one is the fat one That has four power units by the way so Then you can share power uh this small
Disadvantage with the albatronic is that One power unit is whopping 75 kilowatt So if you have a 300 kilowatt uh or Let's say if you have the smaller one With the the 150 kilowatt that is shared And The one like it depends but one fat E-tron might take up two power units and Then the other cars they yeah it's like What you want is fine grain distribution Or power uh you don't have it there when It comes to yeah this since this is okay Um it's okay they don't use Delta Charges but um I heard that Delta Charges they have roughly 20 oh no I Think it was 20 or 25 kilowatt power Units uh and then all this seems to be Denmark or Sweden uh so yeah and I Should also by the way mention that um Well actually I have so many topics here But um yeah we can also mention this That you know these ABB charges by the Way they uh they have less smaller power Units this is 50 kilowatt it's old School uh but the problem with ABB is Orders okay let me see should I go into This topic now Um yeah okay let's go into this topic we Also talk about reliability and here Again prime example these treatment Charges they are so unreliable I'm not Just saying this because oh I'm in Camp Power is my sponsor you know I think This based on my own experience that I
Have ex have been all over the place all Over Europe also but a lot around Norway And and Sweden and in general I've seen That the tritium Chargers not only these Ones but also the tritium Chargers that I only use is the one that is more Modern right Like you guys know how it's important Right they are so unreliable they are Broken all the time but not only tritium We have also let me see if I can find a Picture of the ABB um A Circle K they also use one type of ABB The 175 or 150 kilowatt charges and let Me see there's like a nice Tower there This one here yeah this one this one I Don't know what's up with it but there's A cooling unit here for uh let me see The the cable is still passively cool But the cooling unit Index charger tends to break and you Know I jokingly say ABB always be broken But there's like a little bit of Truth In it because the um the yellow Chargers Was like this well some there was even Some orange juice leaking out in the Snow there and then once the cooling Unit is kaput then the car I mean then The charger does not deliver 175 150 kilowatt anymore it delivers 37 Kilowatt and also and I also experienced This as at Hobby same problem there I Was receiving only 37 kilowatt so it's Um
Yeah it's um not good that we have Charges that are unreliable and then Based on my experience many many years Of experience I I said to uh Circle K That you know my impression or my claim Is that I'm going to show you guys okay Is that tritium is the most unreliable Ones that you guys use and then ABB are The second unreliable ones and then the Hypercharger has way better reliability And then I'm not sure what else they use And Delta also but they don't use Delta And Circle K said You are absolutely right I was like okay So that was my claim and they have Statistics on this and yeah they know You know Um and also asked them about okay so if A treatment charger or an ABB charger is Put down you guys don't make money on it And said yeah of course we don't and Then I said do you guys get any Compensation from tritium or ABB when They are down no they don't and you guys Have seen it sometimes the Chargers Could be down to a week or maybe months And then you don't make money on it I Mean if you have a data server that is Down you have some warranty and the data Server you know they're supposed to have 99.999 uptime because one if the data Survey is not up you're not making money On it but then if a charger is down Circle K is not making money on it but
The the hardware manufactures they don't Give any compensation to say Okay so It's like a messed up stuff man Um well okay by the way I should also Mention by the way when we talk about uh Cables we jump a little bit back and Forth there but I made a list of topics I hope they won't be too long but uh There's also of course um ionity they Use 500 amp water cool cable we also Talk about this with a with PA because Yeah uh especially in P in Thailand they Also they're also interested in high Power Charters there So I said yes uh vertical cables are are Better in a way because then you can Have 500 amp continuous load especially In hot countries like Thailand but also Uh the problem nowadays is that cars EVS They are like this kind of well okay do We have yeah this one even even an ionic 5 cannot take 230 something kilowatt for Too long anyway and while I think this One is 800 volt per system but I think There's an the Tesla yeah but uh cars Today they just simply don't have the Battery tech to take a 500 amp Continuously anyway so in a way Um I said that you know I only did okay They they have the whole idea that they Want to make it uh kind of you know fast And yeah I understand it but in a way They also kind of uh it's a little bit Overkill compared to today's uh cars but
Uh it's good also that they already Scale up the charting Network for the Future so it's ready because it has to Be you know the chicken or the egg so at Least I only did they are ready but then Other chart Point operators they might Not need to have that kind of awesome Speed they can go for something like This with some power sharing but yeah uh For like 800 volt and water cool cable Like I only goes for they are the best Of course but they're also the most Expensive one and it requires more Maintenance and more stuff can break Versus just a passive cable that these Ones use Um and okay Um we also touched into another topic by The way which is uh card payment so uh Card payment that's also interesting Topic they said yes uh in Norway Actually we might get a law that Enforces the chart Point operators to Implement card payment on all charges But in in the beginning they will only Apply to new type of charges or the new Charges they install because when I talk To Circle K they said that yes the old Charges here they are a little bit Troublesome because they haven't really Been designed from the beginning to to Be a card payment uh possibility or Something like that right and the Retrofitting might be somewhat expensive
For them so the the they um yeah I Understand it uh that's the thing okay Sometimes as a consumer I might be a Little bit annoyed but from cost Perspective these charges they also cost The money to install and suddenly you You need to replace them like there are Some locations like in no man's land I Don't know if Circle K has any good Pictures here like this one could almost Seem like it right okay this is um But yeah this is a prime example like Okay this is it's not really no man's Land but it's kind of far far out there That it is but what the heck is it oh This one I wonder if this is so course Outside the bite again but yeah so wow This is really shitty ones by the way The one this is a Siege control this is The the the dark side the dark story the Dark ages of Circle K when they had some Shitty charges really unreliable ones But yeah so the problem with these kind Of locations is that there might not be That much visited I wonder if this is uh No okay I'm not sure where it is but and Then Um if suddenly they are required to Upgrade them with card payment it's Going to be expensive for Circle K or During And then the problem is that not many People visit them on these locations so You have to invest lots of money but
Then you might not get the return on Investment on those locations for a long Time so in my opinion I also told them That um If Norway wants to have card payment Which is better for the consumer and Nova needs to step in or something you Know we have a big money bag and this it Would be okay we have a big money back The oil fund we should just just go for It and improve the charting Network for The whole country but the charge Point Operators need a little bit of help Because they're going to lose money and Then yeah if they are enforced to do That so we turned into that and also Another thing by the way this is a very Nice picture by the way I also told Circle K you know Circle K they're in a Really awesome position because they own The gas station but they also own the Joining Network unlike Tesla or ionite Or other charging networks they they Just have the charging network but they Don't they don't own the gas stations They are located at right uh shell or Whatever so I recommended on that we Want to have the same amenities that at The charges like gas pumps have so which Means that you know trash bin yes put The trash spin this is very nice put up A thing where you can clean the Windscreen because when you are charging You want to spend the time doing
Something useful and then you can clean The windscreen and get rid of some trash Or something right so yeah they there Was even a picture I saw uh somewhere Here I'm not sure if I can find it Anymore Um yeah this one this one I want to see It there there was also a Circle K they Have a trash bin variant with a tissue Dispenser I mean who knows what you want To use tissue for but these kind of Amenities you have them at gas pumps and I in my opinion you should have the same User experience at the the the Electricity pump as the gas pump if you Know what I mean Um Also uh we also talk about also pricing And yeah uh this one is a nice location By the way fancy location that I'm a little bit frustrated sometimes That consumers they just don't Understand they think that chart Point Operators are greedy bastards because You look at the pricing especially Nowadays when the electricity price is High that you know this is why why is There electricity here so expensive Because the electricity at home is way Cheaper well okay this one might be kind Of a bad example because it's kind of in A very fancy location but just look here For example this is prime or something With Tesla you see in order to install a
A high power charger or something you Need to have a concrete foundation and You need to dig some some cables on the Ground and then I'm not sure you don't See it here but usually there'll be a Some kind of Transformer station nearby So you have to have some massive power And then also you have to pay for the Peak power and installation everything And also these charges they they have a 4G connectivity or maybe I don't know 2G 3G something but they have a SIM card in There and normally especially at least For for the ABB Chargers or these ones Here Um this one here I was told that there Is one sim card in each charger they Don't go in some kind of common bus and Something like that so they have to pay For the communication and for the Installation for the for you see the Poles everything here cost money when They want to install some Chargers here You see here and also there might be a 24 7 hotline you can call and also Eventually some of the cables might fall On the ground and break and there's some Kind of maintenance cost involved so That's why you don't have high power Charger or even 50 kilowatt charge at Home because it's it's very expensive to Have them there and that's why these Chargers they are expensive you you have To pay a high kilowatt hour price but
Okay some car manufacturers especially Tesla they have vertical configuration They can do some smart and they can Actually offer electricity cheaper than Some other ones so and then we also Touch into Cam Power by the way because When we start talking about charging Like power sharing because Tesla they Have power sharing unlike these ones They're kind of static and clumsy and Then if you know like I mentioned the Eagle charges at the high power charger And then the fat each one needs to go Only 50 kilowatts but in Tesla Especially V3 you have a smarter power Sharing in this one you also have Smarter power sharing uh and then we Charge into well wait a minute what About cam power because cam power takes The right boxes they have some smart Cable Management they have power sharing Really smart power sharing they have Outstanding software like class leading Industry leading software these Chargers Here they are kind of dumb they don't They can't do much They they have what was it again yeah Locked and also the reliability on Camp Power is just outstanding really uh so They said yeah okay they don't use Camp Power today but I mentioned that have You noticed that uh more more Chargepoint operators in Norway like Recharge and may they start using campar
They said yes they actually know they Can power is more and more common Well okay anyway it was a very long Speech I mean I could talk for another Half an hour no problem about charges And everything I find it very Interesting and also this is one Important aspect of user experience with An EV so I also prepared some stuff here So so I want to ask you guys Um which kind of charges do you like the Most and why I just want to have some Feedback that we can you know you know The the charge Point operators ionity Circle K recharge mid Avenue they're Gonna watch this video you know that and They will listen to you guys feedback so Which charges do you like do you like The AVB challenge you like the treatment Charge you like the ionte Chargers uh What about cam power I'm trying to be as Neutral as possible even though Kim Power is my sponsor but I chose them for A good reason because my claim is that They are the best but that's my claim All right you're gonna die you don't Have to listen to me and then also uh Which amenities do you want at the Charging stations like a trash bin is That important one toilet 24 7 toilet do You want food a vending machine if it's Closed that's usually a problem in Norway at least and what about vacuum Cleaner you know I had like a brilliant
A day okay the vacuum cleaner they are Kind of static but what if there's some Kind of battery driven vacuum cleaner we Have Dyson vacuuming it's freaking Brilliant but then the problem is if you Have a battery driven one you kind of Need to have some kind of safety Otherwise some people might run away With it right so but yeah sometimes you Know usually I mean the whole idea for Me is that charging might take some time But you can always you spend the time Doing something useful while the car is Charging like eat go to the restroom or Maybe clean the car or something you Know clean the windscreen you know do Something useful while you are charging And I I should also mention by the way We're also touching that when I talk to Okay it's very insightful to talk to Circle K because they know some stuff About gas station and they could tell me That Yeah the whole uh you know the the Nozzle for filling of dinosaur juice They have disabled the the feature where You can lock it and and fill it Automatically because of safety and they Told me that uh yeah in the old days They used to have it but the problem is That people forgot they were feeling gas And then they went into the gas station And did some stuff right and then they Came back and they drove off with a pump
Still pumping in dinosaur juice I was Like wait a minute I mean what modern Fossil cars nowadays why don't they have A mechanism where they detect that if The lid is open then just refuse to Drive I'm not sure if you can even Detect that it's ref it's receiving fuel The fuel levels are rising you know There's a state where you don't want to Drive but apparently even with modern Fossil cars you can drive off while You're yeah whatever so because EVS by The way if you are plugged in the car Refuses to drive which is a very good Safety feature Well okay anyway Um and then okay the last question I Have for you guys is what is the ideal Charging site design layout I mean Should we have the backup stall should We have the drive-through stall do you Guys want to have a roof around it do You what kind of layout is the best for You or where you don't have to stay too Close to others and you know they want To ding your door when they open it or Something like that which one is the Best yeah I'm going to ask you guys some Of this and then hopefully we get some Healthy discussion going and then the Chart point to present might listen to You guys and they might actually apply Some changes based on it so anyway Um what else should I say about when I
Talk to Circle K in PA uh well okay I Was actually quite happy that they came To me and asked me and also yeah use me Consulted me because I think I can be Like a spokesperson for this but I also Want feedback from you guys but I'm Really happy that Circle K came to me And also PA came to me and asked me Because I have some strong opinions About things I have some experience with This and I think it's good that they Listen to me as a power user but also Maybe try to get more input from other Users before they design the stations Because I feel like some charting Stations today they are kind of clumsy Made so maybe also I can like the last Question which charging sites or Locations or designs do you guys dislike The most and why is it like that okay Anyway I think that's going to be it for Now I hope you guys enjoyed this video As always thank you for watching and Talk to you later
Electric City Vehicles Cars Power
Electric City Vehicles Cars Power
The rapid development of electric vehicles (EVs) is fueling the next big change in how we power personal transportation. The US auto industry is rushing to produce enough battery-powered cars and trucks to meet demand. It’s also supporting state and federal incentives to get more Americans on board.
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A booming economy and growing interest in clean and green energy have helped electric cars become more popular than their fossil fuel-powered counterparts. A recent report estimates that US sales of EVs will double over the next 10 years.
However, while EVs are helping to make the world greener, they will also increase electricity demand on the grid. This can tax the system and add costly infrastructure to deliver power during times of high demand, such as when people charge their EVs.
Eventually, many EVs could be interconnected to the power grid and feed back electricity to help support the system during peak hours. That could cut costs for the grid, but it would take time to develop a widespread network of EV-powered distributed energy resources (DERS) to provide that help.
How They Work
Electric cars, like gasoline-powered vehicles, use a charging station to safely transfer energy from the electric grid to their batteries. Charging stations can be located at homes, multi-family housing units, workplaces and public charging stations. Depending on the type of charging station and the capacity of the vehicle’s battery, it can take anywhere from 15 minutes to two hours to refill a vehicle’s battery to 80% of its total energy.
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