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Results from my range tests, banana box tests and other goodies here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzvvWJHrBS82echMVJH37kwgjE/edit?usp=sharing
Main folder with everything:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HOwktdiZmm40atGPwymzrxErMi1ZrKPP
My equipment:
https://www.foto.no/ecoflow/140865/ecoflow-delta-max-2016wh-2400w
https://www.foto.no/ecoflow/140866/ecoflow-delta-max-smart-extra-battery-2016wh-for-delta-max
https://www.foto.no/ecoflow/140862/ecoflow-solar-panel-160w
https://www.foto.no/canon/117819/canon-hf-g60-4k-video-kamera
https://www.foto.no/canon/117820/canon-hf-g50
https://www.foto.no/canon/109080/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-kamerahus-fullformat-26-2mp-full-hd-video
https://www.foto.no/sigma/106703/sigma-24mm-f-14-dg-hsm-art
https://www.foto.no/r%c3%b8de/138324/r%c3%b8de-wireless-go-ii-plus-2-lavallier-mic-pakke-med-2-stk-r%c3%b8de-lavalier-go-mygg
https://www.foto.no/lowepro/113571/lowepro-nova-200-aw-ii-skulder-bag-35-x-20-x-18-5-cm
https://www.foto.no/fotostativ/122919/joby-gorillapod-3k-pro-gorillapod-for-systemkamera-opp-til-3-kg
The app I use when connecting to OBD ports on most EVs:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ovz.carscanner
ScanMyTesla app for showing battery temperature, etc:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.emon.canbus.tesla
https://www.facebook.com/scanmytesla/
https://www.e-mobility-driving-solutions.com/produkt/diagnostics-cable-tesla-m3-01-2019-bundle/?lang=en
https://www.e-mobility-driving-solutions.com/produkt/diagnostic-adapter-cable-facelift-pre-facelift-bundle/?lang=en
The OBD dongle I use in Tesla, Leaf, Ioniq, e-Niro, e-Soul, i3, ID3/ID4 (Android only):
https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlink-lx/
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Yo what's up we are now sitting in the Ne El7 and I'm pulling a trailer I'm doing The 1,000 km challenge with trailer oh Yeah so uh yeah I'm in Sweden right now Getting close to Thea and um I realized I haven't had a a rant or whatever you Should call it the Ted Talk the TV talk For a while now so yeah I thinking okay Maybe I should have a little uh Discussion um about battery swop again The people mentioned it Uh but this time maybe also talk about Battery swap versus hydrogen car versus Uh a charging Road and also wireless Charging H but let's start with um Battery Swap so yeah um the challenge with Battery swap at least with Neo's Ecosystem is that it's not designed for Um for trailer so every time I want a uh Swap I have to unhook the trailer so Yeah no big deal uh as long as you know Your own trailer like I do or at least I Haven't tried I tried this trailer uh Twice now so I know how to deal with it I Tim it that I need roughly 1 minute if I'm fast I need 1 minute to unhitch and 1 minute to uh hitch it again plus a Little bit of time driving to and from The trailer and backing it up and suchu Uh so yeah you can say overall maybe it Steals um uh 3 minutes extra to Yeah versus just uh driving without the
Trailer Right uh but it has benefits because in General driving with trailer like you Guys have seen with the E E SUV and also Tesla more less pla is that it um Trailer require like a big trailer or Caravan requires a lot of energy and Then if you can fill up the energy fast By with battery swap then that is good Right yeah it is but I have to remind You that uh in a in a perfect world you You might think that you arrive at the Swap station with 0% battery and you Swap it within 5 minutes because that's What the BR brochure said Right and and then you get 100% battery No you Don't uh like I experienced now in the Past when I did the challenge I arrived Often with 10 15% because first of all You can blame the car ABC always blame Car the car didn't give me a good uh Indication of how many percent I will Arrive with so I had to get I to try to calculate and then because Weather conditions change during the Night morning hours versus Daytime then uh I miscalculated and I I Ride with a little bit too much juice And also from experience with driving Neo is that once the battery goes low Then it becomes a little bit scary you Get some limp mode and uh maybe not That much in summer versus winter but
That's why and in general with trailer You want to have a margin in case Something happens a d tour you didn't See then just having 5% margin might be Uh cutting it very close so that's why In general with trailer I try to have 10% Margin yeah so that's yeah so in reality You end up with 10 15% sometimes right But then you don't think get 100% Because Neo they don't want to hurt the Battery so they only charge them to 90% And you can't even manually requested to Get 100% you always get 90% sometimes I Even got 89% I'm not sure about that one But okay uh and then as I've seen uh the The swap with unhooking and stuff takes 10 minutes total but it's still faster Than um than uh charging definitely Faster but there's another problem Availability of uh swap stations because With when I did the challenge with just Driving the car without trailer no Problem you know the car has uh at least 300 km of range maybe but with trailer It you you can Pro roughly slice it in Half because uh normally I will have Around uh well I will be driving faster Yeah that's true um when I drive faster I might have 250 W hour per kilometer Right 250 270 but then with a trailer I'm driving at 90 and then uh at 90 with That trailer I will have with this car With the el7 I have roughly
170 180 W hour per kilm which is pretty Good for a big car it can take more Banana boxes than model X even uh but The trailer seems to add roughly 150 to 200 W hour per km depending on Conditions so that means that and then Plus the increased margin I mentioned it Means that you roughly have half the Range and you can then drive 150 km yeah If you swap you can drive roughly 150 maybe 160 70ish before you need to Charge again and then once you charge it Goes dog slow and that's the problem Because Unfortunately swap stations in Europe They are not laid down with 150 km Distance between them they are laid down Roughly U 300 km between them or maybe In longer which means that you can swap Yeah sometimes but then uh sometimes it Doesn't make sense to swap uh for Example vby uh it would be way too early I would I was passing there with uh 70% Battery so huh is it worth it swapping From 70% to 90% no um just the hassle And everything right and then and then What I ended up doing is that I had to Charge in between and remember that when You're charging some Places uh it's a bit tight or you have To back up then you have to unhook Unhook the trailer so then you also have To waste 2 3 minutes extra for unhooking The trailer unless you go for a trailer
Friendly stall like many test loss that That's the one I went for actively to Not have downtime there and then spend The time charging instead but as like This route here that I'm taking the Swedish route it's not like Norway so There's no there in Norway we have high Power chargers every 10 20 km I can time The uh charging stops so I end I end There with 10% 5% right so I get 125 KW On this car but I ended up having to top Up I arrive at 40% or something uh and Then like I was camping at 90 KW for a Long time right 80 KW for a little bit Towards the end so it's not optimal and This is by the way the one of the Disadvantages with the Neo which is that It doesn't charge that fast and Unfortunately um you might have to top Up also you cannot only swap okay with a In a road trip without trailer yeah then The the amount of charging is less than Now with the trailer um but yeah so you Have to top up and then because the Charging is somewhat slow I mean it's a Freaking 100 KW battery but it can Peak At25 Only uh and then it slowly drops and Then we can but yeah uh yeah so it it's It's charging roughly half the speed of Other cars like like eqs Tesla even uh well even the other Chinese cars like uh xbang you know Nowadays so it would be great if we
Could at least charge at 150 or 200 K if You at least get 150 Kow flat like a fat Rron or Peak a 200 KW initially or at Least 187 I calculated which is 500 amp Limit and 375 uh volt pack um at the low End that would be be way better Right um but because now I find myself Having to top up in between the swap Swap Stations um and the swap I mean the Charging stops they usually take around 20 25 minutes and then the swap stops Are only 10 minutes right so um that's a Little bit um downside at least if we Could speed things up by having trailer Friendly the swap station but how does It work does it work no it doesn't work You have to unhook why because the way It works is that you back up the car or The car automatically backs up into the Station Um so that has some limitation I Realized that the swap station has some Limitations uh why is it like that I'm Not sure you know it was designed for China maybe in China they have really Little space and they design it so you You need to back up uh you don't you Don't have a a drive-thru stall but then Drive-thru stall would also require two Ramps rather than one ramp uh but that Would be Better if if the swap station was Designed in Norway or uh maybe
Netherlands where they love trailers Then they would have some kind of extra Um that some extra ramp or something so You can pull up with the trailer Right drivethru and then one once you Raise the car for swapping the battery It will also simultaneously raise the Trailer that would be Heaven you know And then you can at least save those Minutes and you don't have to even exit The car with a trailer if it's raining Outside or snowing but that would cost Extra and then for China I don't think They pull too many like I don't think They have trailers in China maybe they don't have trailers in China so they probably never thought of That or bothered optimizing it for it um Another thing by the way I just realized Is that the swap stations they have a Roof over it uh probably for a good Reason because today it has been 26 27° Outside and once you are swapped out Once you don't have the battery there is Roughly 5 minutes where you don't have Hbac on and you might be it's 5 minutes Well if it's hot outside if it's sunny And the Sun is slightly low it can shine Into the car it didn't do it today it Gets hot here and those 5 minutes last Like five 5 hours and you'll be oh come On come on come on and you can't run the Air conditioning you can't even have it On only fans which is a little bit weird
Because the Fans correct me if I'm wrong they're Running on 12vt if you can at least have The fans running yeah or or okay okay You can open the windows before you Start the swap but once you initiate the Swap then 12vt is cut out and you cannot Open the windows and if you open the Door you could interfere with the Swap And you can you could interrupt the swap So uh yeah so my point is that yes it Has a roof over it but it's probably not For fire suppression thing it's just a Roof to make it look nice maybe I'm not Sure why oh yeah oh it could be that They have the roof to not have too much Contaminations in there because they can Actually close it there's a gate they Can close yeah for winter snow Schmutz Branches leaves in there you don't want That right in the swap station That's probably why they have it but it Creates a little bit the limitations Because some people in the live stream They ask me about yeah swap station does It have a future what about for uh for Uh holiday traffic right Holiday uh to road trip and I realized It's August now I seen lots of people on Holiday they have roof boxes roof boxes Will fortunately work because there's a Little bit of Headroom above the yeah Above the car in the swap station but a Bicycle forget about it you better
Remove your bicycle on top of the roof Before you uh attempt the battery Swap um what about um Cano and uh and Kayaks they are too long so you also Need to remove them and then attach them Again before the Swap uh what about bike racks you have On the trailer hitch well it depends uh I heard that it works there is also some Space back there but for some reason in The back side sometimes it's closed on Some station sometimes it's open as Least if it's open that's Great um so you see there are some Limitations here for what you can put on What people tend to put on their cars Attached on the car yeah there there Just oncoming car had a bike and a roof Box very common at least around Europe I'm not sure how it is in China or Asia uh I know in at least in Thailand I've seen lots of people have roof boxes But it's not common to have B bicycle Racks in the back on the trailer hitch But in Norway at least very very common To have bicycle rack or even cargo rack You know the coffin yeah uh so but Neo Could fix this they could make the the The battery drop station a lot taller You know it it would look freaking weird Man like you have four or five M head Room above the the swap station and then The gate needs to be freaking long yeah It looks weird it looks like uh like a
Tower but that would actually make it More usable and if they made it trailer Friendly that would be even better but It's like okay uh why would they do that Why would they invest more money in Making it uh like that you know versus How many people are going to use it with A trailer or with bike racks right but It's all about convenience because if I You you can you can bet if there's a Family on trip with bikes on the roof or Something right that pokes out that Cannot conform with the with a battery Swap station do you think the daddy who That's the guy who's going to do it Right who has to do it do you think he Will just uh do we swap or do we uh no What's going to happen is that okay Mommy is like yeah okay we and the kids We're going to exit the car now daddy You take care of removing the bikes or Removing the Cano and he be like mom ain't doing that the the kids And the baby they're going into the gas Station they're going to pee and they're Going to get some food and then he has To do the unhooking on detaching and Then he has to wait for the swap to Happen and then he need to reattach that so he spends 15 20 minutes doing That and or do you just want to go plug It in huh yeah wife he ask you want to Plug it in he's like hell yeah I'm going To plug it in instead because at
Charging stations there's no limitation You can have stuff on your roof you can Have stuff behind it well in most cases At least uh it depends some places yeah A little bit tight then uh if you have Too much stuff poking in the back it Might be a little bit comers but it Doesn't uh you can usually park a little Bit skewed and then usually it will work Right slightly diagonally and then you Can plug it in Um and you many many places you have Trailer friendly stalls so you see the Charging stations today they are Actually way way more practical way more User friendly than the swap station so Yeah um I mean I'm not just purposely F Trying to find fals with the swap Station I mean the swap station is Wonderful I used it three three times Today and it is so fast it goes so Smooth now and it it's done within 5 Minutes super convenient another thing Another bonus another Advantage with Swap station is that it just works it Has been fully inated it's just so good The way it works with Neo it gives you Instructions the kid yeah n me tells you What to do and N me well not technically New but the car will then back up into The uh swap station and then you have to Press okay you know everything goes as Long as you have set up everything goes Automatically but I have seen many many
People struggle at ionity or rechart or Other places trying to figure out how The heck you need an app you need an FID You have to put in the card information And then meanwhile they plugged it in And then the the the plug it times out After 2 minutes and then the handshake Fails and then yeah you also have Handshake problem and you have Frozen Childboard and in Winter right but The swap actually works they have Designed it for winter so that is Actually a great Advantage with swap but Fortunately Europe is coming Europe is a Very developed country I'm just kidding But uh Europe They are trying to enforce more and more Card payment which simplifies things Because it doesn't have to be Complicated the reason why charging Today is complicated is because the Charge Point Operators they make shortcut they do Whatever is convenient for them but it's Not convenient for the user because you Can fill up diesel using card why do you Have to install an app or do some To uh charge right right yeah a b c Always blame CH Point Operators so yeah but I mean so when we Talk about convenience what I mentioned The other uh options also the other Technologies yeah I just want to touch Into what about hydrogen uh you know
Because people say oh but swap I know There's going to be lots of people in The comment section swap is useless swap Is useless well uh I I agree at some Extent uh Swap um the thing is that when you have Swap You Don't Own have to swap you can Choose you can either swap or you can Charge the downside with Neo is that They charge Slow uh but with hydrogen car you can Only refuel you can only pump it with Your right hand preferably or maybe Sometimes with your left hand if your Right hand is holding a phone but um but With Neo you can charge it no problem Right you have the the advantage of Charging at home charging at work or Even charge when you you don't feel like Swapping or if there's swap Stow you can Charge instead right you have the Flexibility if you have with hydrogen if You have refueling sty or if the nost is Frozen you're you have to wait And if there's car in front of you you Can't just like ah okay we don't want to Refu we're going to charge up the tiny 1.2 KW battery Instead so in that regard what the heck Man there's a Toyota driving slower than Me dude I'm pulling a Trailer man okay but so there That's the the disadvantage uh with the Neo that they charges slow um but
Sometimes it might be the best solution If the other solution is to dig around With the unhooking and detaching bikes And right uh but I also sometimes Wonder H how they do it with Neo because Think about this you detach the battery I I just remember I just remember this The the battery must have it must have Some active cooling liquid cooling Preferably okay if there's liquid Flowing around in the battery Pack the car also has a liquid Loop wait Do they exchange liquid huh huh huh or Do they just touch tongues some people Talk about this in the live stream there Is one it's the L the L do they actually Connect liquid hoses from the battery Pack into the car and the back that Sounds like there there's got to be some Spillage which means that in a close System you will then have Spillage that's not Good or unless there is a closed system In the battery pack and a closed system In the car cuz how does it work with Tesla for example or other cars well Other cars where you can't swap as far As I understand it there is a loop going From the car's HVAC system and octaval Right in the Tesla and then it also runs Through the battery and stuff right Uh because it was not designed to be Swapped but if it's designed to be Swapped how do you transfer heat from
The battery cells over to the the Radiator to to uh get rid of the heat to Reject the Heat or whatever you call it Well unless there is like a a metal Plate with copper or something that uh Conducts heat really well yeah uh that Could work but then do they have uh heat Paste there or is it just metal the Metal I guess met the metal will work if You have some kind of okay so I'm trying To understand if there is some close I Need to ask Neo about this but the I'm Just uh assuming or guessing right now But if there is some interface where the Liquid in the battery needs an extra Pump a dedicated pump a Clos system and Then it then transfer the heat from the Cells into the liquid and then from the Liquid into the metal plate and then the Metal plate over to the other metal Plate on the car side and then from the Metal plate over to the car's liquid and Then over to the radiator and then Reject it out of the Car well okay but will there be losses There will there be uh not optimal heat Transfer maybe that's why uh the NEOS Are not charging that fast I'm not sure Or maybe they don't want to charge that Fast because they it will kill the Battery and they want to P think about this the battery swap is Probably designed for China like I've Seen most cars Chinese cars they seem to
Be be optimized and originally designed For China and then moved over adopted to Be used in Norway or Europe and then They be like a shisa we need more amps 200 amp is not going to cut it over here You know like stuff like that so maybe In China uh Chinese people they don't Have time to charge it take too long so They just swap yeah and that's why uh in China they they they consider it they Nah it's not too important to charge Fast in China uh just swap instead But then in Europe it's a different Story we've seen this over and over Again not only with uh not only with Neo It was um I think it was hongi yeah when Hongi arrived it was charging slower or Some other Chinese cars also and then They realized that in the European Market people expect more than 85 KW Charging right just like the the the Moxes I tried recently like over here They expect at least 150 kilowatt Charging and the charging Network in in High power charging Network in Europe is Really good as most part of Europe uh so That's why it makes sense to uh charge Faster yeah but yeah so actually I I Actually don't know how it works with The Neo and why they are not charging Faster uh in theory they could pump in 500 amp right 187 KW roughly at Peak at Low St of charge but maybe they don't do It because the battery will overheat
Because there is a limitation on cooling I I don't know or uh the other other the Other another reason is for not killing The battery because we have seen this With the Mercedes you know Mercedes has An option the eqs has an option for Eco Charge which limits the to to the 80% at Fast charging or maybe even slow Charging and limits the power instead of 200 KW you get only 100 Kow uh Porsche tyan as the same thing Instead of pumping in 265 KW it goes to To around 120 KW and it has a a way more Conservative uh curve why is that Because the top uh it's like you're Running on steroids you're you're Running on Painkillers just to Go yeah do the bum rush and then Then you start feeling all the wounds After the Battle so maybe uh that's why KN charges Slow but um yeah so I actually don't Know how to solve it but okay back to The whole point why didn't mention the Other systems well yeah so you see um at Least when it comes to Hydrogen now yeah every time I have t Chance to bash hydrogen I will do it no But I'm I'm just telling you guys how it Is right that hydrogen if it came out 10 Years ago when when Mill Falcon was uh Out and the charging network was in Europe then then hydrogen might had a
Chance to to develop but the problem With hydrogen is that it's they call it Der it's it's doomed to fail because It's way too expensive to build those Chren stations there have way too many Problems limitation and the hydrogen Itself was expensive the reason why it Was cheap in the beginning was because It was heavily subsidized that's what You do the first dope is for free and Then you need to pay the full price so Yeah it seems to me like hydrogen is Doomed to fail and we kind of see it Yeah that it's failing uh I've seen a Couple of taxes in Oslo some meai the New meai the next gen Meai uh I think that is just a result of Some campaign Toyota had to try to push It but I think they got it pushed from Toyota globally or from Japan you know We need to get more hydrogen cars out There and then they were okay okay okay They get whipped uh they sold some more But then uh I heard from uh taxi drivers I have a taxi the neero the neero taxi Driver he said that the hydrogen taxi Driver is not that happy it's Expensive and this the car has so little Space uh because it's full of hydrogen Tanks so in that regard hydrogen Technology is Doom it's useless what About battery swap technology what about Um wireless charging technology well huh Wireless Jing I don't see the point of
It because it it's not a standard ccs in Europe is a standard it works great it's Cheap cables and it's robust as Long as you design the cars and the Charing stations to not be too silly um It just works right uh whereas um uh Wireless charging you're trying to solve A problem that is not there people don't Mind plugging in and you say yeah but What about hry problems what about uh Problems with you know people are Struggling well they are struggling Mainly like I mentioned they're Struggling because charge Point operator Makes them hard if you at least offer Card payment there will be way way less Struggling at the fast charges even for Cabling uh so really and then we don't Even know what kind of problems wireless Charging has maybe there will be Something blocked maybe alignment Problems who knows right misalignment You have to move the car or I don't Know um but hopefully it's a good Technology the wireless charging but it Just requires extra Hardware and we are Done talking about you already have an Existing hardware for charging you know You need a charge plug you you must have A charge plug an an EV can only rely on Viess charging that would be well in the Perfect world yeah maybe just like the New iPhone will not have USBC it will Only rely on mag safe I guess for a
Phone it works kind of but then in some Few situations where you don't have uh Uh wireless charging then you simply Can't charge your iPhone too bad sucker Um so it would be great to at least have The cable option for a phone but also For a car and that means you already Have the hardware and maybe whatever Software but at least Hardware uh price Whatever for the plug but you also need To add additional charging plate for Wireless charging that cost money and Adds complexity cables and plate and Stuff um and for I mean why is it Charging faster no at least what what we Saw with the momentum Dynamics it each Plate was kind of it was like a big Pizza and it uh provided only 75 KW you Know 75 Kow is not going to cut it in 2023 you need at least 150 Kow oh then You need two charging plates oh Extra weight extra cost and those are Freaking expensive eventually they will Go down in price yes but so you see so With viess charting nah but then wait Wait wait but Tesla recently I acquired A company for wireless charging wait ah Okay that changes everything then then It's good then is good yeah then it Kicks ass man wireless charging is the Best just like before Tesla got Octav valve and heat pump then I no no We don't need a heat pump no no no and Then once Tesla got heat pump is like oh
Yeah heat pump is the Kick's ass man oh Appar e doesn't have a heat pump it Sucks oh Yeah I'm just trolling with you guys now But you see so when it comes to wireless Technology I'm not sure it's like They're trying to solve a problem that Is not there right oh I need to change The ND filter bit okay but what about Hey let's imagine if this was a charging Road this Section like when you drive a Mario Kart You get a little boo yeah great yeah you Can charge while driving but how useful Is it well um I haven't tested it yet I Was invited to go check it out uh in Sweden luden I think it was called in The South near model I'm going to check It out eventually charging roads sounds Like a really expensive Technology so you will have to have new Non-standard technology for charging it And then you also need to set up somehow If you want to charge uh you have to Yeah I don't know set up something app ACC or ship you can't just swipe the car While you're passing by right so yeah so It's um a technology that has some Limitations some require ments versus The more traditional like a pump like a Fuel pump or when you just buy a hot dog You just swipe the card you can't do That for a charging Road right so even For a wireless charging solution yeah
You could even have a uh um a payment Station and then you can wirelessly Charge even but for like charging Road Um do I feel like I need a charging Road Uh it would be nice if I'm pulling a Trailer but when I'm uh driving without Trailer then um my charging stops are Fine with Char with cable charging if I Can get 150 200 kilow and if I have 75 To 100 KW hour battery then I have Plenty of range the human becomes the Limitation when I need to when the car Need to stop I also need to stop and Guess what many many times I even need To stop before the car need to stop and It's out of juice so the human is the Limitation but for trucks it kind of Makes sense But why do we TR try to make a new Technology that we don't really need Because we we already have mega charging System and even 350 KW that is already Available for CCS 2 today is already Good enough for Trucking uh because trucks that have Bigger batteries they can take 350 KW Continuous as long as the cables are 500 Amp rated and they are water cooled you Know an 800 volt yeah yeah 800 WT makes Sense for trucks and if the trucks have 500 to 1,000 KW hour they can take 3 350 Kow continuous to 80% and the truckers They need to stop for brakes anyway and I think even the truck sorry the buses
We use in in the city in Oslo like the Ones that don't don't have Pantagraph They they have enough range to finish Whatever they need to do uh like they They don't have a range problem and they Can always plug in at night and even if They need to plug in and buy the end Station or some it still works Right which means that when it comes to Wireless charging and uh wired Road U That's an expensive technology uh that Is not standard and in a way the Similarity with drawing with drawing With the Neo is that the battery swap is Also proprietary so it only works with New cars if other cars want to use it They have to have the software W and It's it's quite complicated it's not Like Tesla when Tesla open up the Supercharger Network you just have to Install the Tesla app and as long as you Uh well if you have a Cho if you have a Leaf or a xang G3 you're too bad Buddy but at least if you have CCS you Can then charge on Tesla Supercharger You know no additional Hardware software Is needed in your Car but for T but for Neo the whole car Needs to be constructed for battery swap Which means that the battery swap system Ecosystem for Neo cannot be um how to Put this like um they in it's it's all About coverage right they invest in Infrastructure in the in the Char I mean
In the battery swap station I don't know How expensive it is but at least the Battery SW station the advantage is that It doesn't take up too much space which Is perfect for China um And they can service lots of car you can Push through a lot of cars per day even The Gen 3 is supposed to be able to take Uh I think it was 500 cars for they Really Impressive um but um they they invest in That and ideally what they need to do to Keep customers happy but also to to get Uh payment back the return investment is That they need to have one car they're Swapping or they need to be running at Maximum capacity without weit time right Then you get uh value of money but as Long as uh the station is just staying There not used that is technically lost Money and Tesla is brilliant because They went for something that can be Shared and we are seeing it today like Lots and lots of people are happy super Happy with Tesla Supercharger Network That is open for the public uh and now With V4 they will even be even easier You can even supposedly pay with card And the cable is 3 m long so that the Cars with charge port on the right side With the wrong side should have been Left side with the right side they don't Even have to pay charge and block uh Other spots
Right um so Tesla they are in a really Good position to get uh the coverage up Or they can you know they invest in Supercharger network but they they get a Lot more session it's all about selling Those charting sessions selling those Kilowatt Hours uh for the return of investment Because you have to pay not only for the Charging of the swap station but also For all the infrastructure the digging The the manh hours the support even yeah All that stuff cost money and as long as You get lots of sales then that Technology is uh very price efficient And that's probably what we're seeing Now by the way with Tesla is That you know today nowadays in Norway Tesla Supercharger prices has gone down Um It cost around two to two between two And three nuke per kilowatt hour Recharge M uh Copla and some of the Other ones the the bigger ones um they Char and so okay they charge roughly 7 Nuke per kilowatt hour so that's more Than twice as expensive a Tesla ion Recently lower the price they can now Offer around 7 nuke per Kow hour for Drop in and then 4.8 nuke per kilowatt Hour For the ionity pass if you then but then You have to pay 128 Nook per month uh For subscription fee or if you have a
Car that is in the group you can then Also get even lower price but you see at Least ion and Tesla they can offer cheap Charging but not the other ones uh maybe Because of the hardware I suspect it it Is partly because of the hardware if They use something like C power I think That it should be more cost efficient But this is not only something I say Because C power is my sponsor but there There must be a reason why recharge Suddenly start rolling out massive Amounts of C power and they're replacing The all 50 KW sites 50 KW ABB or tritium With Cam power because then what they Need to do the the camp power system is Flexible you know power sharing and Stuff so you can then sell more sessions And um you avoid charging que L Stow is Not good L Stow means that people will Eventually avoid those places or people Queuing up for Charging is not making revenue for the Charge board operator for example at ion People queuing up at ion you have 350 Kow available yes an eagle is charging At 40 KW the remaining capacity is not being Used and then I is is losing out on Potential Revenue so yeah um but at Least nowadays I see more and more Shared charging spots or charging uh Hardware like Delta M has been very Active on using Delta
Chargers um c k in Norway and also in Sweden and Denmark at least I see them Using more and more or actually almost Exclusively um hyper hyperchargers which Is great and most of them are the fat Ones with four possible power modules Configur of 300 KW but uh with two plugs So they can share one car can get 300 KW Like uh Lut Electra uh which is kind of Rare anyway you know uh why would you Support the top 5% the top 1% today Right you want to support the the the Bottom 95% of the cars which is which Needs 150 KW and then two cars can share 150 KW uh so yeah that at least hypercharger Also great investment and uh in general I've seen that the hypercharger seems to Be really reliable because hyperchargers Are built as charging Hardware from the Ground up whereas AB I mean don't want To talk too much about them just I'm just saying it as I heard it is that Supposedly ABB is based on existing Hardware that they already got from Other parts of the ABB is big I think ABB does some other stuff I don't know What they are doing but they probably Use the the the uh uh what do you call It rectifier inverter whatever a Rectifier from something else and then Maybe it has not been optimized for uh That kind of usage right just like the Early superchargers you know that the V
V1 V2 supercharger they actually use Tesla onboard charger one supercharger Stack that could output 120 to 150 Kow uh would be consisting of uh usually 12 onboard Chargers each 11 kwatt yeah But in the in the car it would be Operating with 11 KW but at the Supercharger they have slightly better Cooling or something uh and there's no Vibration stre but they are running at Higher power I don't remember around Maybe around 14 13 14 kilow uh something That yeah uh but from what I heard I've Seen it also uh they will they they Would break yeah lot of times they would Eventually break because they were not Designed for that kind of high power Constant usage uh and then service Personnel needed to go there and and Replace them but it was no big deal Because okay the stock has 12 on Chargers right uh and if one fails okay Then it means that the stack uh can only Output 130 Kow or 110 KW uh no big deal Um it will still function but if that ABB you know the the ABB F 50 Kow Charger if that one is kaput then it Depends sometimes it will still work With reduced power you get instead of 50 Kow you get 40 KW but many times if it's Kut it's Kut it's not working uh um it's Not even limping giving you something Right so yeah um touching into a lot of Technologies but um what I'm saying is
That okay Tesla started with the onbo Charger because it was easy they already Had the hardware and they just had to Get the wheels running they had to get The supercharger up and running and get Happy charging customers and get more Sales so they had to bleed a bit and pay For replacement send out those service People uh it was I think it was at um uh Middle fart I saw a Tesla guy uh with The those yeah he he he replaced some of The the Chargers in the charger stock But eventually they then evolve into V3 Supercharger which is optimized for Charging and they should be way more Reliable and somehow Tesla can offer Pretty cheap charging maybe Because uh the they they sell more Sessions they have better coverage and The hardware is cheaper to produce and They have power sharing so they yeah and They end up hogging lots of the Customers charging customers this summer Or in the past so uh yeah back to uh Back to battery swap by the way so yeah Uh when it comes to NE ecosystem okay I Mean you um you can swap fine but the The swap system is not like Tesla um or yeah I'm not sure I mean can You make can if another brand suddenly Wants to use swap they they need to have Software that supports It uh you have to have the same on onc Screen stuff they need to have
Sensors that can with I don't know if They require light light or even because The the system is built around that you The car will back up automatically into The stall and it need to be yeah Perfectly lined up there uh uh and then The car the whole car needs to be Designed for for battery swap and maybe Possibly also the a the the the the hbx System or the cooling uh the whole like You know everything the cooling Everything needs to be designed from Ground up to be like that and as of Today we haven't seen any other brands Join It yeah but even you know even Tesla by The way yeah I should mention it nacs North America C Tesla in us other car Manufacturer can even adapt to the Tesla Charging plug somehow because it seems Like it doesn't require too much Modification yeah it's possible Right Tesla even made a chadum adapter so that The classic cars can use this this Adapter and then you suddenly you can Charge on chano because it's just some Signals and some stuff and then the DC Is still Flowing uh and the same with uh um CCS Adapter with Tesla So I wonder if someone tried hard enough Could they even make a Cho like leave a Cho to C CS Adapter yeah that could be possible that
Could be the savior of uh chal and leaf Because eventually there will be less And less uh SE less and less chore out There in Europe and then uh leaves will Have a hard time fast charging and but Leaves can survive for a long time like They don't just break uh they can Be used for I don't know I'm wild guess Maybe 20 30 more years before uh they Suddenly die Out so yeah back to the whole battery Swap um um it's a great technology and It's a nice addition you can say yeah You you buy the Le you buy the the Battery swap and you can use it you can Swap or you you don't have to swap um But right now I feel like there are some Limitation with the battery swap station Layout and when it comes to holiday Traffic or holiday Equipment um and also limitation Charging speed plus that there is simply Not enough uh battery stop stations this Was also the case for Tesla like I lived There I live with Millen Falcon 10 years Ago um but back then okay Millenia Falcon couldn't tow so yeah but at least Mel falcon or Tesla M less back then had Good range and they could actually leave Between the superchargers no Problem uh so that worked back then and It's I mean the swap station system Works great in Europe I would just like To see more swap station out there so
Yeah but then eventually my claim still Is that cable Charging is going to Trump them all Cable charging is what kill the uh the The hydrogen car and the cable charging Is probably what's going to kill the Wireless charging and the cable charging Might also kill batteries swap because Eventually as the batteries evolve and Become better and better and you can Even you don't even have to have mega Charger even 350 KW is good enough my my Claim is that CCS 2 350 KW is good Enough because there is an upper Limitation of how thirsty EVS can be Just like fet cars you know for the F For the fast 20 years 30 years fossil Cars they have consumed okay they have Improved slightly in efficiency right But they consume roughly 5 to 10 L per 100 km and it's not like in 10 50 years They will suddenly consume more so the The demand for energy in the fossil car Is not going to go up and the same Applies for EVS the EVS they they need Roughly 150 200 wat hour per kilometer And that means that again back to the Whole thing that human is the limitation So as long as the human is limitation uh We get better and better batteries with Higher and higher battery density and Faster faster charging then 350 KW flat To 80% is going to be good enough and Maybe you get 200 300 Kow hour battery
Right uh so idea I mean I um how they put this I have seen the The the hydrogen Charing uh the the Hydrogen refilling station at uran in Oslo it was there St oil had it they Probably got lots of uh governmental Subsidies for setting it up plus the Company uh that uh was in investing Money there they chipped in money and Startle install it had very few people Again back to the whole not getting Enough sales and they lost ton of Money on that station they removed it And the same at K you know in Sweden in In Denmark they had a hydrogen station There I saw it it was co-financed by the EU EU taxpayers money went into that Hydrogen station and then eventually They dismantle it and remove it because Way too few sales and way too high Investment cost versus maintenance and That is just the tip of the iceberg how Many other um uh Hydrogen stations were installed and Then removed right and then well some Some of them tend to also blow up that's A different story um so when it comes to Battery Swap in the future uh charging cars and Battery Technology will be so good that There is no point to swap batteries yeah That's my Claim uh so uh I mean I'm not going to Just shoot the battery swap dead but I'm
Just saying saying That uh from my personal perspective or With my uh knowledge uh in EV world That's what I predict is going to happen But it would be a good transition today Yeah uh if people like like okay if if There's a a fossil lover like you can Ask yourself for example this Honda is Passing us here Honda Civic why doesn't He drive a Tesla why he doesn't like Tesla okay why doesn't he like drive a Hondai e because it's okay hondai Is he has range okay why Didn't he buy uh a tyan okay couldn't Afford it okay um I'm trying to I'm Running out of um uh arguments here why Didn't he buy a cheap affordable evv Instead well because he doesn't want to Deal with that he doesn't want to deal With charting stops well but today the Charting network is already good enough Right but okay but some people just Don't want to deal with that they have The preferences They just want to pump it in they want To pump it with the right hand okay fine All right you don't want to plug it in Instead no okay you want to pump okay You want to pump in Fr okay okay and Then but if you can offer something like Battery swap you know oh yeah look at Here look at that battery swap 5 minutes SW huh they be like ooh if that can Convince yeah say here is 93 huh why did
He buy 93 then Honda huh huh he's Hammering it yeah but okay but so if you Can convince some people hard hardcore People into moving into electric by Offering battery swap then Neo has Achieved something and then once you get Them in the house you get them in there Then they are doomed then they realize That oh damn this EV stuff is good I'm not joking man I've talked to many People friends of muskus even like Muskus like some people marus friends in The business friends or whatever like Was some dude watch Wasing in the Washing business uh he was against EV he Was a petrol head and then Mich was like Hey borrow my Tesla and he was like and Then he tried it and he was like damn This is good and then he saw the Light yeah so yeah I'm saying that I Mean okay battery swap has a purpose but Just brace yourself that in the future It might Not be uh Um yeah useful or make any sense anymore Yeah but cable charging it's like what I Was to say about Technologies like VHS VHS lasted for a while magnetic Cassettes also floppy this did actually Last for a long time but eventually the One technology one better technology Kills the other one right CD came out And then ultimately we have internet and Streaming and that's going to that's
Going to last that we have we have Reached nirvana with internet Screaming um because it just it just Trumps Everything right like I I can't think of Any other like you you can't suddenly Introduce a physical Media uh well it depends of course if You need lots of data or say security Okay maybe physical me media makes sense But for the most part internet is so Fast that it trums everything yeah in The old days when we didn't have 4G 5G We had Edge on the phone and Tiny phones And Tiny screens and you know then yeah Okay uh memory disc and USB drives and Stuff made more sense but nowadays like You take a picture and you dump it right Into the cloud it goes fast it's Convenient you know uh and there's the The way I see there's nothing that can Kill internet and streaming and the way It works today and it will just it will Just strengthen it's like a Synergy Effect everything moves everything uses Internet everything and and internet and Also um and uh like uh Broadband Broadband or Wireless or 4G or 3G no Phone uh that stuff um it it is so good That it trumps everything you can say What about satellite yeah stalling well Stalling has its invitations you know it Will be something like battery stop it's Good but it also have limitation within
Tunnels and like that um and it Actually requires some some big Hardware Like you know can draw similarities to Wireless charging for example right so In that regard yeah um stalling is is Going to have a hard time trying to out Compete 4G 5G uh and back to the point w wire Charging in my opinion Ccs2 is already so good and so cheap and So common so Standardized uh that it trums it all and It's that's like the end game uh I don't Think in the future there will be Wireless charging or battery swap or or Or just charging roads and stuff like That those Solutions might sound like a Good idea convenient yeah yeah yeah you Know but practically people don't care They they plug in at home or they don't Mind plugging in at the fast charger the Like the reason why many people uh are Discouraged from buying electric cars Today is not because um there is not Enough I mean it's not because it's hard To charge it's hard to plug in it's Mainly because charging still takes some Time today or they have Charing queue or It's clumsy to deal with apps and So but you know that can be solved you Know you you can just look at Tesla Tesla um Uh environment or you know you plug it In and you start charging right super
Easy so I think eventually if we can Just solve the whole charging problem Thingy then uh that's going to be the Universal uh charging solution Really so yeah uh that's my uh my my Claim yeah uh I don't uh try to be any Fanboy I don't try to promote my Favorite brand or my favorite technology I'm open for other Technologies of Course I I I explored at least a W uh Wireless charging a little bit I Explored uh experience um um hydrogen Firsthand and also battery drop now and Of course a lot of wire wired charging And I based my claims on all that stuff Right the only thing I haven't tried now Is the the uh charging road but that Sounds like more like a video game thing Than uh something yeah and I can mention That yeah but you about for for Businesses for trucks they don't have Time to stop and charge well but they Are required to stop and Rest yeah so then the limitation again Is in the human not in the trucks that Are driving and if you look around at Gas stations or resting areas there are Plenty of trucks standing there like not Doing anything right and even by the way I should mention that cpra they they Start doing something cool in Norway They put fast high power charges at Resting areas yeah E18 south of Oslo Towards Christian Sun L uh on that that
Route they have yeah they have charging Stations at resting areas you see Ultimately um the prices for charging You know this is the S curve this is the The the what do you call it the masses Right uh the mass production like the More you sell the more the cheaper it Gets the more people buy them that's why Phones and so on are so inexpensive and And flat screen right in the beginning Flat screen were so expensive compared To CRT but you see So eventually Charging um charging stations the Hardware will be cheaper and cheaper and Even in areas where you don't have Enough charging uh or I mean sorry Enough grid power you can't use Something like anywhere with a battery Storage uh the batter storage also Offers lot of cool features for the Owner company or whatever they can even Make money on it while it's not charging You know with like grid uh frequency Balancing or other stuff right helping The grid making money in the grid and Also the batteries are getting cheaper And cheaper which again makes the elare By the way for you guys don't what El is Elare is a charging solution where you Have some kind of something that looks Like a container and it's flexible you Can move it it has battery there and it Has um Uh some kind of charging solution there
Depending it's flexible what kind of Charger but they also made their own Charger from yeah and then the main Point is that you can then feed it with As low as uh 43 amp 3phase like no sorry 43 kilowatt yeah 63 amp three pH 400 Volt and you can then offer 400 maybe 300 Kow or something depends on the Battery uh and in the resting area that Make might make sense right and if they Can do with like that in the beginning And then if that site sells more and They start making more and more money Right return investment then they can Start investing more money and then pay For extra GD connection pay for an extra Um Transformer there because that's Cost money so you know it's like a Synergy effect here batteries are Getting cheaper charging Hardware is Getting cheaper and cheaper there are More and more Charging uh charging Hardware companies Like I mentioned cam power is pretty Good uh hyper hypercharger is prettyy Good Tesla Supercharger is pretty good I Wouldn't say any of them are the best Because then you guys are going to hate Me I like your videos but you're a fan Boy you think the Tesla is the best you Think the cire is the best they pay you No but so yeah but then other inferior Technology like the one that doesn't Have power sharing like like the old 50
Kow Chargers from mayb tritium they Slowly naturally die out because uh Charge Point operators they are not Buying them they buy other better Hardware and that is the way to go Because then you improve the use Experience you will be charging faster You don't have to spend freaking 2 hours On a fat rron charging at 50 Kow charger You know you will get 150 Kow or Something uh and then it becomes more And more attractive for uh for um uh People to buy um electric cars and then The more electric cars you have on the Road the more sales you have on on Charting sessions and then charge Point Operators they can then invest in more Charges like they if you live in your Country and that country is not well Developed when it comes to EV look at Norway Norway is like a periscope into The future uh where you see that first Of all um econom incentives work you Give them some kind of carrot incentive Lower price don't have to pay V or Something uh ACC the bus lane you give Them something people will start buying Those cars and then uh when we have more Cars on the road like in Norway then we Have more and more Chargers and then More and more Chargers result in more And more people want to buy cars you Know so that's why we have so many Electric cars in in
Norway so other countries just look at Norway uh and if you're not sure if it Works not just look at Norway you can Even ask some of these companies if You're not sure and they will give you Good advice uh on how you can do it to Uh uh yeah make EVS more uh or better More affordable or better in yeah Charging in your country so yeah a lot Of I touched into lots of topics uh I Find this very interesting um yeah but Um I think I need to end it it's Freaking 1 hour now so uh when it comes To battery swap okay yeah I should Mention another thing by the way with The battery swap Which I need to mention this I'm doing a Challenge and um the battery swap is Great um but you see what is the point With the battery swap okay if you Battery swap because of the convenience Yeah okay you don't want to you don't Want to deal with the tons of apps and okay okay fine you battery swap you Do things on the screen fine but if you Do battery swap because you want to save Time then um you better not go to the Restroom right well you can okay it Takes one 2 minutes but then parts of The advantage with ROP is slightly Diminishing um because EVS uh charging EVS they charge so fast I touched into This that maybe the reason why the pla Or the eqs or the lus electric or
Uh what is again uh Lucid the reason why They can charge a 200 300 Kow is because They have designed the whole car from Ground up to be able to charge that fast From the cell to the cooling to the Heat Pump to everything Right uh so that's why uh today's best Charging cars they can almost match Battery well it depends I mean we have Seen it now uh like Tesla can almost Match um KN in a battery swap and then It now we we have to see Now if this el7 can match Tesla in the Trailer Run yeah um So uh what was my point again yeah my Point was that so if the point with the Battery swap is to save time because That's what they advertise oh the batter Only takes 5 minutes yeah they actual Swap here but the the parking and the Stuff around it still takes a little bit Of overhead but okay but then if you Stop and pee then the the advantage is Partly lost and I even saw this no yoke When I did the battery swap challenge uh Earlier this summer there was a guy in Front of me with a White e uh E7 he swapped before Me and then when he finished swapping I Started swapping but then okay but then I had to hold it because I was doing a Challenge and then when I right after I Finished swapping which took roughly 7
Minutes total I went back on the road And I met him on the road what did he do After he swapped he went into the gas Station this was this was at the V bike After he swapped he went into the gas Station and then he spent roughly seven Minutes going to the toilet and then he Bought food because when I passed him I Overtook him semi slow I saw that he was Eating while Driving so you see practically he spent 15 minutes roughly on the swap plus Going to the restroom and then in 15 Minutes a Tesla or kia I know okay for Example Kia ev6 can charge from 10 to Let me see in 15 minutes 10 to roughly 70% in 15 minutes under ideal conditions Right so then uh the gap between uh the Practical user and the Practical time it Takes for a swap plus a little bit of PE Braak versus the other one is not that Great anymore and then but then uh in a Way the the charging is more robust in That regard that if you plug in and You're charging and you need only uh 70% But then some some for some reason there Is a there is toilet sty in the gas Station no big deal you charge a little Bit more and modern cars nowadays they Get slightly better and flat the curve You charge a little bit more than you Need and as long as the next stop is not Your final destination then that means In the next stop instead of arriving
With 10% Like You plan or the car Hopefully told you to then you will ride With 20% and then as long as the Charting curve is fairly flat then no Big deal that means that the next stop Will be slightly shorter so in a way Yeah the time you wasted by waiting at The charging at the toilet queue the 5 Minutes you wasted there you kind of Gain it back by not having to charge That long on the next stop right but Then that's not the case for battery Swap or even uh uh refueling with uh Fossil yeah that's another technology I Had not touched into fossil but fossil Technology is similar to hydrogen in Many ways because you have to pump it up And you only have to pump pum it up you Can't plug it in at Home so um yeah um yeah I think that's It there's a lot of stuff uh mentioning Um and uh yeah we'll see so hopefully This uh spark some uh or give you guys Some insight and also maybe spark some Interesting discussion so um let me know What you guys think about what I have Discussed now lots of lots of stuff to Uh talk about I guess yeah but I think That's going to be it for now I hope you Guys enjoy this video as always thank You for watching and talk to you later
Electric City Vehicles Powering the Electricity Grid
EVs make sense for city drivers who rarely go further than their commute. These vehicles are more affordable than most gasoline models, and they’re able to recharge overnight at home. They can also be charged during the day at workplace charging stations, and a robust public charging network will provide options for longer trips or those without access to home charging.
Ford GM Power Manufacturing
Electric vehicle production is booming, as new models from Tesla, Toyota, and Volkswagen hit the market, while other automakers introduce premium EV-only offerings. But ensuring there’s enough infrastructure to support electric cars is still one of the biggest challenges facing the EV revolution.
In the worst-case scenario, EV owners plug in their vehicles and start driving during peak demand hours, causing a spike in electricity demand that exceeds the grid’s capacity. That’s what happened in California during a heatwave late last summer, when the state asked EV drivers to refrain from charging their cars until the evening.
To address this issue, utilities are testing technology that allows EVs to send power back to the grid. This is known as vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology, and it can remove demand during a crisis and shift it to an hour when the grid has a surplus of energy.
The City of New York is taking an aggressive approach to preparing for the EV future. We’re increasing the number of publicly available fast charging stations, and equipping 20 percent of spaces in municipal parking lots and garages with Level 2 chargers by 2025.
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